University of Minnesota, Morris
Morris, MN



February 19, 2001 3:30 p.m. Behmler Conference Room

Present            Neuharth, Urness, Evans, Chabel, Carlson, Mooney, Gooch, De Jager, Korth, Finzel, Nellis and Lee
Absent             Kissock, Behrens, Thielke, and Ostrowski

 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Korth asked for a motion to approve the minutes from February 05, 2001.

            MOTION:      To approve minutes from February 5, 2001.
            VOTE:                       Unanimous in favor (9-0-0)

Discussions regarding the motion from the last meeting regarding the wording from paragraph three on page 56 of the catalog. Korth wanted to make sure that everyone agreed with the statement. There was a question on the exclusion of Internships and if it was intended to be an exclusion from the 60 GER requirement. The exact wording was not put in the motion, however it could be put in at this point.

A member asked about the pros and cons to having the internships excluded from the 60 GER credit limit. A member suggested one of the pros of having the internships excluded would be the purpose of the GER to ensure the breadth of learning as liberal arts. Another member explained that all internships are different and that some internships may fill a GER designation and some may not. A member suggested that internships not be included in the 60-credit GER requirement and if a student believes it should count, then the student can go to the Scholastic Committee. A member said UMM's 44 credits of GERs already guarantee breadth. So why should the student be penalized by not counting an internship? Another member explained that the student isnít penalized because it would still fit in the 120-credit limit. Only in an unusual circumstance would the internship not count for any credits. Another member noted that the small number of students that would have such a problem would be able to go to the Scholastic Committee.

A member listed each of the internships for the committee and there were 10 courses that might be considered internships or field studies. A member questioned how many courses on that list do not have a GER designator. A member suggested that we have two options: 1) to not include any internships in the 60 credit GER limit or 2) to only include internships with GER designators. Another member suggested that internships and directed studies done outside of the discipline of the major are activities that address Liberal Arts and they should count in the 60. Nellis noted that for the 2 years she was Interim Dean she signed off on IS internships. She does not see them as part of the GER credit limit and would not feel comfortable making them part of the GER credits. A member noted that IS internships are automatically considered outside the major except for LAHS.

A member questioned why a student would pay for credits for an internship if they would not be counted. Another member responded that students have to take credits outside the 60 credit GER and major credits. Internships still get counted toward the total 120-credit requirement for graduation. There was discussion between several members in agreement that even though an internship is outside the major they are usually more applied.


            MOTION: (Gooch) To include internship courses in exceptions listing.

DISCUSSION: A member noted that this sounds confusing and should be worded more clearly. Discussion among some members questioning what area internships without GER designators would fit into, the consensus was that they were considered IS. Another member asked if the motion needed to say "without GER designator" and if we are talking about IS specifically then say that. The member who made the motion agreed with that. Another member said that he supports the motion but clarity is needed. A member suggested that the courses be listed then for clarity. Another member noted that only two internships on the list have GER designators. Also if there is not internship in the title how will it be interpreted by the Registrarís Office. Another member questioned if a course would only be considered an internship if the internship papers were completed? A member noted that a course does not need to have internship papers to be considered an internship. Maybe internship courses should have "internship" in the title of the course. Korth questioned which internships should be excluded. A member questioned if it is up to the Registrar to make the interpretation. Two members responded that it would be the Registrarís interpretation whether a course without internship papers is considered an internship.

Gooch continued his motion and Finzel concurred. The motion was refined as follows:

MOTION:      (Gooch, Finzel) to make an amendment to page 56 paragraph three, second sentence to read as follows: "with exception of accounting courses in management, internships in interdisciplinary studies, and courses in elementary education, secondary education and wellness and sports science that do not have GER designators."

            VOTE:           Unanimous in favor (9-0-0)

The next item on the agenda is the pre-requisites on courses and whether or not they should be enforce and what is their purpose. This will be tabled until Thielke is present.

Item number four on the agenda, regarding hidden prerequisites, Korth noted, was touched on at the last meeting. He asked whether the committee wanted to take any official stance on that. A member questioned if a discipline would then have to trim its credits? Korth noted that yes that might be a possibility and that if the hidden prerequisites violate other rules then it would have to be looked at. There was discussion among the members if this issue should wait until we discuss if prerequisites need to be enforced and if prerequisites are not enforced then why would they count for the major limit. Discussion led to the conclusion that this issue is separate and is not tied to the previous issue in regarding the purpose and enforcement of prerequisites.

In further discussion an example of the foreign language program was used. A member noted that in a foreign language the student cannot be placed without the prerequisite. Another member noted that if the student tested out of the prerequisite then they would only need 36 credits not 44. It was pointed out that the entrance standards require students to have studied another language before coming to UMM and the campus has formally accepted this rationale for not counting first-year languages in those majors. A member noted that another example would be 1st year drawing that does not count for the major but the overage would count toward the total; this is not a problem.

A member noted that if we say we are going to show all the courses that must be taken then the 48 credit limit may be violated. A member noted that not that many prerequisites are hidden. Another member questioned if we need to take an official committee position and if we do what would be the result? In further discussion a member noted that in European Studies the prerequisites do not seem to be hidden, they are all listed, if one looks carefully enough. Discussion among the members again raised the question if the 48-credit limit includes all prerequisites (even hidden ones), if prerequisites need to be listed, and if there is a practical problem. A member asked if prerequisites were covered in the advising sheets? DeJager stated that they arenít official but they are accurate. If anyone wishes the committee to discuss this further, notify Korth. No action taken at this time.


Meeting adjourned 4:32 p.m.
Submitted by Karen Van Horn

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